Outrage’s Descent 3 -  An in depth analysis of Outrage's Development of Descent 3.

Matt Toschlog Interview - Dad, Game Designer, Businessman

Volition Descent IV Interview - An interview from Dec '98 when Volition was developing Descent 4.

Mike Kulas Interviews

Eleven Odd Questions for Mike Kulas from Parallax (And Eleven Serious Answers)

Jojo: How did you end up at Parallax anyway?  Couldn't you find a decent job?

Mike: I applied at game companies all over the world, but when I told them I worked on Car & Driver, they kicked me out.

Jojo: Why did you bother to develop Descent 2 while Quake is coming out soon?

Mike: Descent 2 is actually Quake.  Id granted Parallax the right to the Quake engine when John Carmack was thrown in jail for mounting a BFG on his Ferrari.

Jojo: What teams do you consider to be your rivals?  What do you do about it?

Mike: We used to think we didn't have any, but last weekend I was in Chicago and when I saw all the hysteria over the Bulls, I realized they were legitimate contenders for the Parallax glory. So far we haven't done much about it, but I'm going to work on my jump shot.  Of course, I could annihilate that Jordan guy in a Kali game of Descent any day.

Jojo: What are the essential differences between Descent and Pacman?

Mike: Descent has more letters.  Oh, Pacman has catchier music.  Oh, and Pacman has more of a plot.

Jojo: How many copies did Descent sell?  And are you driving red Ferrari's yet?

Mike: Only three copies were sold, all to shifty guys in Taiwan who have their own shrink wrap machines. No Ferraris yet.  See above.

Jojo: What if we called Roberta Williams and ask her to write a story for Descent 3?

Mike: Well, she'd probably do it, but she'd put in a scene where one robot commits an unnatural act upon another and we'd get a nasty RSAC rating. But Ken would be a natural for the role of the Vulcan Bot.

Jojo: How many man-hours went into the development of Descent? And Descent 2?

Mike: Descent took us about 20,000 man hours.  For Descent 2 it was only four hours because John Carmack actually wrote the whole thing on his laptop while waiting in the drive-through at the Taco Bell in Mesquite.

Jojo: When is Descent: The Movie coming out?  Has Spielberg contacted you yet?

Mike: Descent: The Movie came out several months ago to uniformly putrid reviews.  Then they re-edited it and serialized it for television as Central Park West. Spielberg calls me every night on his T3 line and I annihilate him in an Anarchy game.  Then he calls on the voice line to plead for a hacked version of the exe.  But I never pick it up.

Jojo: How many lines of code makes Descent 2?  How many lines are copied from Doom?

Mike: Well, like I said, John wrote the whole thing.  It's basically warmed over Doom, but he had to add another couple of table lookups to support the two additional degrees of freedom, the polygon objects, the dynamic lighting, the arbitrary geometry, the dynamic physics system, the quality network play, the non-deterministic AI, the higher resolution modes, the cockpit, the multiple simultaneous 3d views, the control configurability and the Guide-Bot.

Jojo: What is the average work:sleep:free time ratio among your team members?

Mike: Well the owners sleep a lot and the serfs work all the time, so it's a pretty good mix.

Jojo: Who had the uncanny idea of referring to our Games Charts on your posters?

Mike: Some marketing weenie at Interplay.  You can bet if a Parallax weenie came up with the idea we'd have put the ID number in a 96 point font. (By the way, it's 1565!)

Six Odd Questions for Jojo from Mike Kulas (with Six Truthful Answers)

Mike: Is it true that 92% of the votes for Command & Conquer come from IP addresses in southern California?

Jojo: Yes.  But then 94% of the votes for Descent come from IP addresses in Champaign, Illinois and Ann Arbor, Michigan.

Mike: Has anyone actually played Galactic Civilizations?

Jojo: Yes.  The authors, their nannies and the washroom monitor, which explains the 300 votes every week.

Mike: How much would I have to pay you to keep you from counting votes for Quake?

Jojo: Your usual weekly check should do.

Mike: Is it true you're the second most famous guy in The Netherlands after that kid who stuck his finger in the dike?

Jojo: That was me, too!

Mike: What do people in The Netherlands do after they're done reading the Top 100 chart?

Jojo: Stick their finger in a hole and wait for the next one.

Mike: Do you think we'd get some extra votes if I gave away a Descent 2 cheat?

Jojo: Couldn't hurt.

Mike: You sold me.  Try JOSHUAAKIRA!

At this point, a slip of paper fell out of Mike's pocket with the following notes:

Our rivals are Id, LookingGlass, LucasArts and some really hungry guys in a basement.  We buy their games.

Descent sold about 300,000 copies.  We mostly drive Japanese economy cars.  Plus a Mustang.

Descent 1 was about 120 person months of work.  Descent 2 estimated to be about 80 additional person months.

There will probably never be a Descent movie.  I heard Spielberg's son plays Descent, but I don't know if that's true.

A wild guess is Descent 2 has about 250,000 lines of code, not including data.

The Descent 2 guys are cranking, but the rest of the company is encouraged to work rational hours again.

Mike Kulas
Parallax Software

September 11, 2000

PD: As you know, the Descent I source code was released a while back. Did you hope that the Descent community would create total conversions and unofficial upgrades to the engine, to make it look more like Descent 3?

Mike: I don't recall what my expectations were. When Matt and I decided to release the code, it was because, when we were out of industry, we'd have loved to see code from a published game. I supposed I figured some things would be developed as a result, but that wasn't the motivation.

PD: When you built the engine for the two Freespace games, how did you do it? Did you start over from scratch, or did you use the D1/2 engine as a basis?

Mike: We largely started from scratch. There was a little bit of Descent code, but it was more a matter of pulling in small pieces for specific purposes. We didn't start with the whole Descent code base and turn it into FreeSpace.

PD: What was the original inspiration for the Freespace idea? Anything more than simply the notion of Descent without barriers?

Mike: The conception of FreeSpace was not influenced by our work in Descent. We wanted to do something pretty different than Descent. Adam Pletcher wrote the proposal and script for FreeSpace. Here's what he has to say:

"Several FS team members had been space sim fans for some time. TIE Fighter and Wing Commander were really the biggest influences on FreeSpace, not too surprisingly. We really just wanted to do the best space sim ever made, with everything we'd always wanted. Other bits of inspiration also came from the Orson Scott Card book Ender's Game and the TV series Space: Above and Beyond."

PD: Where did Summoner come from? I mean, you guys have a track record for shooters; why a role-playing game?

Mike: An RPG is what the majority of the company wanted to do next. When we were nearing completion on FreeSpace, I asked everyone what they wanted to work on. I told people we'd be starting on Descent 4 and a new project. The type of new project that got the most interest was a fantasy role-playing game. We never have actually thought of ourselves as a shooter company.

PD: I'm sure that you realize that a lot of Descent fans have expressed certain feelings on Red Faction. Is there anything you'd like to tell them to dispel the notion that Red Faction won't be as good as, say, a Descent 4? Aren't you worried about alienating loyal Descent fans?

Mike: Well, it's hard to live up to people's conception of a game that doesn't exist. ;) We're doing the same thing we did with Descent and FreeSpace—we're trying to create the best game we know how. I think Red Faction is going to be a great and original game. People who are looking for something that continues the Descent story or Descent-style gameplay will be disappointed.

Am I worried about alienating loyal Descent fans? Yes. Unfortunately, sometimes you can't choose. In our case, making Descent 4 the game we wanted isn't, and wasn't, an option. I hope those fans will give Red Faction a look. I have no doubt it will be a great game. Whether it will be the kind of game they want to play is up to them. I hope there will be a free demo on the PC so they'll get to make an informed choice.

PD: It has been said that Volition and Outrage are taking turns with the title of Descent. Is it at all possible that sometime in the future, after Red Faction has been completed, that it will be Volition, and not Outrage, that creates D4?

Mike: It seems very unlikely that we'll work on a Descent title.

PD: Seeing as Volition changed publishers to THQ, Interplay isn't too conducive to Volition games in development, apparently. How much did they want for the license for Descent and Freespace?

Mike: That type of business matter would have to be confidential. I wouldn't say we went to THQ because Interplay wasn't interested in what we're doing. There are a variety of reasons why people work together, or don't work together. Unfortunately, those must typically remain private.

PD: Assuming Red Faction was supposed to be D4 (it certainly has all of the plot points and characters in place), was it going to be a prequel? It seems to me that Martian mining wars were the reason that Material Defender 1032 was thrown into corporate prison in the first place.

Mike: Red Faction is a new game. Descent 4 was canceled. Sure, a lot of the technology that was going into Descent 4 is present in Red Faction, but the story is very different. Yes, there are similarities, but I don't think it will make much sense to view Red Faction and Descent as being part of the same universe.

Descent 4 was going to be a prequel to the original Descent.

PD: Since the "Geo-Mod" part of Red Faction's engine is possible only because of portal technology, it would appear that you're still using the Descent engine as a core basis. Is that correct?

Mike: Interesting theory. I wouldn't exactly agree that geomods are only possible because of portal technology, though Red Faction does use portals. I do think it would be very challenging to get them to work in a BSP-based world, but I suspect it could be done. In any event, we are not using the Descent engine as a basis. I don't think there's any code from Descent in Red Faction.

PD: Do you have any idea what might come after Red Faction, whether it's from you or Outrage?

Mike: Yes, I think Munukuru will come from Outrage after Red Faction comes from Volition. ;) As to what Outrage will do next, I'm not sure. As to what we'll do next—I'm afraid we haven't announced anything.

PD: Thanks Volition, and good luck on Summoner and Red Faction!

Matt Toschlog Interviews

September 7, 1998

3DGW:  What, In your opinion, is the most notable new addition to Descent III?

Matt: The most obvious thing is that Descent 3 now takes place both inside and outside.  With our Dual-Engine Technology we have a indoor portal-based engine hooked to a flight-sim-like terrain engine, allowing the player to fly in and out seamlessly.  It really opens the game up and gives us the power to expand gameplay over the previous versions.

3DGW:  What is the story line behind Descent III?

Matt:  At the end of Descent II our hero, the Material Defender, was left floating, lost in the middle of nowhere.  In D3 he gets rescued, learns some unpleasant facts, and gets involved in a fight against some very nasty people.   I don't want to give away too much so I can't say anything more.

3DGW:  Has there been any collaboration with Volition on their Experiences with Descent: FreeSpace?

Matt: One of our guys (Kevin Bentley) worked with Volition on getting Parallax Online up and running with FreeSpace, and we tested early versions of the game and provided feedback.  But we didn't work on the game itself.

3DGW:  What is the situation with the split of Volition and Outrage to  pursue separate versions of the Descent Series?

Matt:  In 1996 Mike Kulas and I, who founded Parallax, decided it made more sense to operate the two offices of Parallax as separate companies.   We cooperate very closely, including on the Descent series.  In addition to doing independent projects, we're trading back and forth on Descent sequels -- Volition is gearing up to start Descent 4 in the next few months.

3DGW: With the current trend of making the single player experience more realistic, what is in store for us with Descent III as far as AI is concerned?

Matt:  We're making an effort to give each enemy in D3 the sort of distinct personality you saw in Descent II's Guidebot and Thief.  It's important to us that each of the robots in Descent 3 really seems different from each other.  It's very rewarding for the player to meet a new enemy, get to know him, learn his quirks, and figure out the best way to kill him.  It's great when a game requires both thinking and quick reactions.

3DGW: What API's will Descent III support for Video and Audio? A3D,EAX, glide, Direct3D,etc.

Matt:  For graphics, we currently support OpenGL, Glide (for 3Dfx Voodoo cards), and Direct3D.  For sound, we support A3D and DirectSound3D.

3DGW:  What video cards are you currently testing with Descent III and what do you think will be the recommended choice for gamers that want to get the full effect of Descent III?

Matt: Descent 3 will run well on a variety of cards.   We'll recommend at least a Voodoo 1 card, and newer cards (3Dfx Voodoo 2, S3 Savage 3D, nVidia TNT, etc.) will run even better.

3DGW:  Will Descent III support Team Audio like in Descent: FreeSpace?

Matt:  We haven't decided yet.  We'll be looking at that technology in a few weeks and making a decision then.

3DGW:  With D3 can we expect Force Feedback support and fully customizable controls?

Matt:  We haven't done force feedback yet, but we probably will.  And of course we'll still have fully-customizable controls.

3DGW:  Will D3 run as a dedicated server and if so can you give me some details?

Matt:  We haven't implemented the dedicated server yet, so I can't be too specific, but we are definitely going to do it.  And once the Windows- based dedicated server is working, we're going to look at porting it to Linux.

3DGW:  What multiplayer modes will be available? Teamplay, Cooperative, Deathmatch?

Matt:  We'll have all the games Descent II had, plus a lot more.  In Descent 3 we've implemented the game logic for multiplayer in DLLs, so whenever you start a multiplayer game the program scans for DLLs and builds a list of the available games.  This will make it easy for us to add new games, even after D3 is out.  We've already created several totally new games, and we'll be doing more before (and after) the game comes out.

3DGW:  How many people will be able to play at once? LAN, Internet?

Matt:  We haven't done enough testing yet to nail down those sorts of numbers. We're supporting more players than Descent and D2 did, but the real factor is what type of connection each person has.

3DGW:  Will there be any sort of GameBrowser support? Kali, GameSpy?

Matt:  We've got our own on-line matching service, Parallax Online (PXO).  It's a free service that will provide chat, statistics, and plenty of games to join.  The system is already up and running with Descent: FreeSpace, so when D3 comes out people will be able to start playing right away.

3DGW:  Will the level editor ship with the game and if so will it be the same one you used to create the levels?

Matt:  This is another issue that hasn't been finalized yet.  We will *probably* ship with an editor, and if we do it will be based on the one we use, but will be a lot more user-friendly.  The problem with our editor is that we keep changing it as the game changes, so it's not as easy to use as if we'd designed the whole thing at the beginning.

3DGW:  Rumor has it that Descent III will have a more open architecture to allow the Descent community to more options such as mod authors the ability to customize the game more than in past games.  Can you elaborate on that?

Matt:  We haven't figured out how much information we're going to release, but it's true that there's a lot of potential for customization. Descent and Descent 2 allowed add-on levels, but D3 makes it a lot easier for each level to have custom data such as robots and textures.  And our scripting language means that designers of homebrew levels will be able to do things we didn't even think of.

3DGW:  What are the recommended system specs looking like right now ?

Matt:  The minimum system is a P200 with 32MB of RAM and a 3D accelerator card.  The recommended system will have 64 MB of RAM, a Voodoo 2 or equivalent 3D card, and environmental 3D Sound Card, and a good joystick.  And of course, a faster machine is always better :)

3DGW:  What new games have you looked at or played to unwind from the long hours of coding?

Matt:  The big games around the office these days are Rainbow Six and Motocross Madness.  And we play a fair amount of Descent 3, even when we're not testing.

August 30, 2000

PD: Descent 3 is a simply excellent game that met critical acclaim, yet failed to bring you enough for D4, as we all know. Do you have any theories as to why that happened?

Matt: Not really. I'm sure there were lots of factors: summer is a bad time to release a game, the PC market is slowing down, and perhaps people were just tired of Descent. We're proud of the job we did, but it's too bad the game didn't sell better.

PD: One thing that the Descent games are known for is their large levels that have fast loading times. How was this accomplished, especially with D3?

Matt: Well, the loading times aren't that fast. :) We don't do any special tricks—we just try to save the minimum amount of data required for the level.

PD: Since D1, your engine has always been based on a portal system, which makes possible your creative level design, despite the need for high system requirements. D1 was the first action game to feature a portal-based engine, was it not? Was this because other engines at the time were too limiting?

Matt: I wrote the portal engine because it was the best idea I had for creating a large level while rendering as little as possible. I came up with the idea one day at Looking Glass when Doug Church was explaining how the engine worked in Ultima Underworld. The portal engine seemed simple and powerful

PD: What was the original inspiration for the Descent idea?

Matt: Mike Kulas and I had worked for years on flight simulation games at Sublogic Corporation, and later we were involved with the Ultima Underworld projects. We both liked the intense environment of the UU games and wanted to use a similar environment for an action game.

PD: In games such as Quake you are able to add skins to your character, making yourself anything you want to. In D3 you are able to add logos (way cool). Was there ever talk on whether or not your ship could be skinned? Like making it look like a cow or something fun like that? Would it ever be implemented?

Matt: We talked about skins but decided it would be unfair because people would camouflage their ships.

PD: Has D3 become what you intended it to be?

Matt: The game itself it pretty much everything we hoped for. The market impact, though, had been a little disappointing. :)

PD: I'm sure this is on the minds of many fans. Is this *the end* of Descent as we know it?

Matt: It's the end for now; neither Volition nor Outrage are currently working on a Descent sequel. And since I personally spent six years working on Descent games, I'm in no hurry to get back to the series. But it is possible that someday there might be another entry.

PD: Will more responsibility for the Descent series be shifted to the Linux developers?

Matt: I'm not sure what this question means. We're glad to support multiple platforms when practical, but we'll always develop primarily for what makes the most sense financially. At this point, that means Playstation 2.

PD: Should we look to those that did the port for tools releases?

Matt: I'm not sure if there will be any tools for non-Windows platforms. I think it's unlikely, though.

PD: How is the relationship with Loki?

Matt: Good. They did a great job getting the Linux version finished and out the door. They have a real and admirable commitment to Linux and really know what they're doing.

PD: Thanks Outrage, and good luck in whatever you're currently working on!

Interview with Matt Toschlog and Mike Kulas regarding the release of the Descent source code

Q: Why are you releasing the source code?

Mike: The main reason is we figured a lot of people aspiring to work in the game industry would like to see production "quality" code. There are two reasons for this. One, you can learn a lot by looking at working code. Two, people will see that you can write a decent game without writing beautiful code.

Matt: That's a good thing?

Mike: Not really, except that it might make people think writing production quality code isn't that hard.

Matt: That's a good thing?

Mike: Well, not really, unless they learn that they have to focus on designing a brilliant game, rather than writing brilliant code.

Matt: Ah, that's a good thing.

Mike: Yeah, I don't think I understood that until we started working on Descent. At first all I cared about was writing technically good code.

Matt: Then we ran out of money and all we cared about was finishing our game.

Mike: Right. Our code got ugly, but our game got done.

Matt: Writing code is easy. Finishing is hard.

Q: Is there any code you're particularly proud of?

Matt: No.

Mike: No.

Matt: I'm most ashamed of the vector intersection code.

Mike: Yeah, that's pretty bad.

Matt: Mike's AI code is the worst I've ever seen.

Mike: Only because you program with your eyes closed.

Matt: I'm proud we managed to finish without going bankrupt.

Mike: Yeah, finishing is all. Who said that?

Q: Seriously, what should people look at?

Matt: I really don't know. It's not like there's a lot of reusable code in there. Some low level stuff could probably be used. The vector-matrix library is probably fairly instructive.

Mike: The AI is an example of how not to write an AI system.

Matt: You're doing it the same way in FreeSpace, right?

Mike: Yeah.

Matt: The texture mapper is worth looking at, not that you'll be needing a software texture mapper much longer.

Q: You're including the editor, right?

Mike: Yeah, people will be able to use our editor. On the whole, I doubt it's any better than DMB2. And it doesn't run under Windows.

Q: What enhancements do you hope to see people make?

Matt: If an aftermarket sprouts for it, we'd be very happy. People ask for lots of little features that we just don't have the time to add.

Mike: People could probably roll in some of the D2 multiplayer features without too much difficulty.

Matt: I don't think we can guess what people will do. We had no idea how much would be done with third party levels.

Q: The license states that people can't use the code for commercial gain. What if some kid develops something and wants to recoup some of the cost through shareware?

Mike: We're not opposed to that in principle. They need to get written permission from us, though. And, it would have to be after the thing is done so we know what we're permitting to be commercialized, if you want to call it that.

Q: Any plans to release the D2 source code?

Matt: No definite plans. Though, I guess I don't see why all our source code wouldn't eventually get released.

Mike: Me, too. It loses commercial value in just a few years. And, releasing it brings us closer to our customers, which is a very good thing to do.

Q: Any final comments?

Mike: Yeah, have fun with the code.